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RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #16 
An oscillating tool with a blade would cut right thru it.

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Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #17 
That might be workable.  What happens when you get through the paper and to the steel, though?
RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #18 
I’d come at it from an angle, like a scraper. They make scraper blades, but the saw blades are for wood and drywall - I doubt they’d cut metal. The Dewalt is powerful and the blades change easily. My Milwaukee is smaller (M12 series) for tight spaces, but blades don’t change as easily. Once you clean the first time, I’d think a scraper and wire brush would be sufficient. This is an instance where a stinger, used properly, might be a real asset.

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Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #19 
I used to do that with a stinger but you can think you have hit steel and still be in paper. If you made a stinger out of a drill it might work very well. Although, you might find a moving shaft.

I'm thinking of using a right angle drill and a spot face tool for data collection point cleaning.  That way I don't clean anything but what I need. I'll use a 1 1/4" diameter tool with no pilot. After you break the surface it should be fairly soft, I'm hoping.  Either way, it's only paper. I'll squirt water on it as it cuts to soften and fireproof.

I may get one of those cutters anyway because I can use it at home but have enough cause to justify buying it for work.


RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #20 
Without a pilot bit, I think that cutter will “skate” pretty bad. Be careful.
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Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #21 
I'm not really sure what to expect when it hits paper. It's likely going to bight right into it. Feeding too fast might be more of a concern.  Plus, I don't want a drill bit hitting the equipment.

We are going back to collect data in the next couple of weeks so we will know better what we are facing when it comes to running this route.
Walt Strong

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Reply with quote  #22 
I have used the spot face end-mill tool a number of times. It is really difficult to get a true flat surface, as it tends to form a crown in the middle around the pilot drill. We used a disk grinder or ball rasp with flexible shaft in drill to remove the crown. We were attaching steel discs (1000's) with adhesive to the spot face area. Drill and tapping holes for stud mounting are difficult using hand-held power tools. Cast iron bearing housing can be very hard to spot face. Anyone else with success or horrors?

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dnk

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Reply with quote  #23 
Worked in a ceiling tile plant which is much like paper plant. Basement was covered with pulp. Hard to clean the 1st. time (used water hose and scraper and wire brush).Doing monthly readings, after 1st. time wasn't near as hard to clean every month.
Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #24 

Hi All,

The paper industry is tough like that. The wet end is the worst. Rolls covered in much, pulp and the like, wet end drives covered in "sticky's" and pulp. Due to the heat of the gearboxes it dries like paper mache, very hard and difficult to remove, same in some of the ancillary areas.

Sites are unlikely to clean things themselves and I don't really want to waste my life away cleaning. Time for which is not really included in the service. So...
- I try to stick to vertical surfaces which tend not to accumulate the much too much.
- I have the accelerometer on the end of an extension pole in such a way that when you push and shove the sharp magnet edges act like a scraper and you get to metal, particularly where muck is still wet or mixed with oil.
- "sticky's" tend to dry hard as rock and give reasonable transmission of higher frequencies IMO.
- Flat machined surfaces are best, I use a flat magnet which still manages a relatively good location even on slightly curves surfaces.  I think they work better than 2 rail magnets.
- As well as this cleaning points for every one that warrants in my view means often getting close to rotating shafts which raises safety concerns.  Hence the extension pole. Which is essential on paper machines both for personal safety mechanical and thermal overload reasons.

As an aside, (dnk comments reminded me) years ago a salesman came along with a particular brand (bar code reader attached to their spectrum analyser). Not sure if it still exists, hopefully not. He said.  Just stick bar code labels on every machine and you will never wrongly identify a machine again, takes you directly to the right spot in the data collector.

Obviously had not been on a paper machine before where 75% of bar codes would be covered up with pulp or other muck in about 3 seconds. Never mind he said, just carry around a clipboard with the barcode labels printed.

So then you are back to square 1. how to link the clipboard bar codes to the correct machine. It was a classic case of office engineers coming up with useless - practically unworkable solutions. Just cynical I guess after experiences like that. rgds

RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #25 
Danny, for machine ID’s I would think you’d end up with stainless tags attached with stainless tie-wire. The link you reference has a machine for that.

For the points, I don’t know. I’ve always worked alone, but have thought at some point that I would make up a book of laminated, marked-up photos, or maybe digital album on an iPad mini. Have any of you ever done anything like that?

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fburgos

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Reply with quote  #26 
I take photos and store them on Google keep (Evernote like) to identify machines and store related photos.

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dnk

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Reply with quote  #27 
The worst place in our plant was under the wet end roll table. The best way for those rolls was to permanently mount accelerometers and wire out to a remote box. made my job easier. these lasted about a year before having cable or accelerometer problems.
Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #28 
Walt,

I'm not talking about cutting spots, just paper. 

I did a whole bunch of spot facing on stainless steel one time.  By the time I got all 96 of them done, I wished I had bought the 1" diameter instead of the 1 1/4".

I've cut my share of crooked spots for sure.  A magnetic drill press really helps it you have room.

Denny,

I'm hoping that we can have the same results and we might spur some better housekeeping efforts from plant personnel.

John,

Thanks for the tips.  I'm probably going to need to get a couple of telescoping extension poles.  What I normally use is a piece of 1" PVC conduit with a little cutting and bolting that makes a good swivel end pole for cheap but it isn't versatile enough to carry on a route.  We make them, then leave them in strategic locations for the few readings that we can't reach now. This may require enough use to justify the expense.

Rusty,

I'm not sure what I'll wind up with for asset tags.  What you suggest would be what I'd want but it kind of depends on what kind of support I get from the owners.  They have recently been purchased by a fairly good sized company that hopefully will recognize this as a need as opposed to a want.  

Thanks to all for the suggestions.
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