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Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi everyone,

In the 2120 days we used to have cascade. Where you could set the interval of on going collection of spectra.  Resulting in a waterfall plot with intervals preset.

What is the equivalent in 2130 / 2140?

I have an application where this would be useful. I do have transient on one of my units but don't have the software module to go woith it.  Since this is only a rare requirement I am reluctant to fork out $ for the add on software module.

I would like to collect spectra on a paper machine rewinder as it goes through a cycle of winding a jumbo reel. rgds

Noknroll

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Reply with quote  #2 
Vibe, given its a one off job and that you dont have the software, and if you dont need to download the data, you can still view and manually analyze spectrums in Hz on the collector. I'm sure you will know your bearing frequencies. Not being funny with Hz, its just what the box defaults to.
Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #3 
I understand Nok,

So I have yet to discover the full functionality of 2140 but it is no different to 2130 really.  Problem is these sort of jobs don't come around much so each time it is back to learning.  And when you are put on the spot looking like a klutz for a half hour.  Ideally I do need to download data so as to present in a report.

A paper machine rewinder I need to take a vertical and machine direction point at 2 locations, ie 4 points.  More of a structural resonance search. Order tracked because the machine runs up, reaches stable speed, runs and then decellerates quickly.  We are looking for any major resonances.  Cascade woudl be ideal to collect lots of spectra - similar to collecting a very long time waveform and post processing using transient - but I don't have that module - will enquire re cost.

I do have access to 2 2120 2 channels but can't remember if that data is downloadable.

Thanks for your help. rgds
trapper

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Reply with quote  #4 

Vibe, when I first saw this post I couldn't remember anything about the cascade function with a 2120.

After several days of banging my head about it, I finally remember using it once about 20-something years ago. Back then I had a pump that had a resonant mode depending on flow rate, ambient temperature and tank level (IIRC, it was a 150 ft tall makeup tank). I remember taking a 400 line spectrum every 100 or so RPM change both for startup and coastdown. I worked really well at the time.

At my current plant, I've wished for a function like that several times but could not find anything that worked that way in my 2140. I believe we have all the options but I can't be certain of that. You could put a dual live display on one 2120 with low resolution so the FFT and any integration is done lightning fast and tach speed displayed on the other and try to "guess" about where anything significantly changes in the spectra. Not an ideal situation, I know, and documentation would be virtually non-existent.

Is there a possibility of renting something to do the job? I haven't looked into it myself since where I work now wouldn't spend the money and wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.

Good luck!


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Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thank you trapper, I have asked around here locallly - in Australia - and it seems that transient will do that.  I do have that as a dlp but it requires a software addition at cost AUD$8K to post process. And I don't have that. So for the one job I need it for a bit on the expensive side.  But it does allow a very long time waveform and to grab a section and generate a spectrum etc.  I do still have a 2120 with cascade so maybe I have to dig that out.  But unsure if that data is downloadable.  I know I can get screen shots if I brush up on how to do that. Thanks again rgds
OLi

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Reply with quote  #6 
In prehistoric times I used to just print the Cascade from the instrument by the printer adapter to a printer, you know those things that consume the paper our customers produce. I could dig up a Wavepak if you really need........ Always prepared :-)
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fburgos

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Reply with quote  #7 
I have in the 2140 an advance transient program but to analisis on pc i have to upgrade my licence and its 18kUSD not going to happen any time soon.

I've used cascades/waterfall, In other software/hardware I used to have a spectrogram and I really like the presentation.

spectrogram.png  waterfall.png 

Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLi
In prehistoric times I used to just print the Cascade from the instrument by the printer adapter to a printer, you know those things that consume the paper our customers produce. I could dig up a Wavepak if you really need........ Always prepared :-)
  Yes OLI, I remember those days.... just.  No need for wavepak.  I think I have come up with a solution.  See how we go.  Client may already have transient module without knowing but has also agreed to go halves in the extra cost if I need to buy. Waiting on a quote from Emerson.  Would be nice for me to have as well. rgds
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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fburgos
I have in the 2140 an advance transient program but to analisis on pc i have to upgrade my licence and its 18kUSD not going to happen any time soon.

I've used cascades/waterfall, In other software/hardware I used to have a spectrogram and I really like the presentation.

spectrogram.png  waterfall.png 
I'm told the above can do 4 channels at once. And is what I would like to do.  I already have the DLP but need the software bit to post process.. rgds

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Reply with quote  #10 
Seems like yes, there is the software part required. Comes at a cost but the project is quite important and I have asked client to contribute to purchase cost.  Hopefully I will then end up with the transient software part and make the job easy.  Waiting to hear.  With 2140 I can do 2 runs of 4 channels a run and be done. Fingers crossed. rgds
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Reply with quote  #11 
Vibe,

All my 2130's are in use today but I'm pretty sure it is in there under the analysis key. It might be called "start-up/coast down" or something like that.  I think you can do 4 channels and set it to collect on a delta rpm or time. I don't think you need a tach for delta time. If you know your coast down time you can tell it how many spectra to collect and at what time intervals. Just use low resolution so it processes fast. On a winder, it probably doesn't make much difference if you have a tach.  The resonances will be evident through the amplitudes without measuring a phase shift or having a connection to the motor speed.
fburgos

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Reply with quote  #12 
I just checked with 2140, advance analysis, press home, F7, F1, select cascade (mine is in spanish, 5ft. below true zoom), fill your parameters, then F9 to set tach.


 
Attached Files
pdf cascade manual.pdf (418.81 KB, 8 views)

Noknroll

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks for sharing fburgos,I'm off to do some experimenting to be able to compotently apply the program
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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks from me too. I'll download and have a look.  Apologies for being a bit lazy.  Sometimes it is easier to ask on this one and only forum than spend time finding out yourself. thanks fburgos and lots of others. rgds  Winter here and down the Great Ocean Road. On way back 3 days a week at the Geelong Refinery filling in.  Riding around on a bicycle.  21st was the shortest daty. Hopefully not too cold woith wind blowwing over Corio Bay.  Sure not as cold as some in Northern Scandinavia and US!!!!
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