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RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #1 
Was looking at some old posts on balancing and thought of this.

In the past, I’ve had very little luck using the 2-plane option in Fastbal. I was told - or read somewhere - that when you place your first trial weight in Plane 1, and you get a reduction in vibration, then “leave the weight in Plane 1” and add a trial weight in Plane 2 at a different angle (I usually added the P2 weight 90 out from the P1 weight). When you enter the trial weight for trial 2, you enter both weights.

Well, this NEVER WORKED! But if you remove the P1 weight after trial 1, the 2-plane method works very well. In theory, leaving the weight at P1 should work, and possibly save some time, but it just doesn’t work. Not sure if this is a glitch in the program or not.

I do still add the P2 weight 90 degs from where I had the P1 weight.

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Alex

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Reply with quote  #2 
I have always given both trial weights on the same angle and always removed the first one. Never heard of this procedure. Last time I was using Fastbal was with CSI2120 years ago.
Walt Strong

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have not used Fast Bal in many years. I thought that there was a choice to select whether the 1st trial weight stays on or comes off. I checked the Fast Bal II manual, and on page 4-46 it shows an analyzer screen "Applied Weights". The bottom line shows Trial Weights Left On: Yes/No. Rusty, did you do this and it still did not work?

Walt

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Reply with quote  #4 
I have used fastball II a lot of times for paper machine felt rolls and reel spools. For these items (machines) which are like 3 to 5 metres long. Diameter say 8 or 10 inches.(as they either come from america or England which )At each end thereareis a discrete opportunity to balance these rolls. And Fast bal worked very well with that and I did collect normal vibration data to confirm the subsequent low vibration readings - on a soft balance machine.  And Walt. I was always able to remove the trial weights and I understand that is not always possible - welding and otherwise attaching etc.  Those rolls have discrete balancing positions and we should use them.
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Reply with quote  #5 
And Walt you are completeyly correct. You can sleect trial weight to remain or removed. The system just sorts it all out.  Tha nk goodness!
MachDiag

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Reply with quote  #6 
I found a link to this old application paper on Fast Bal II.  I recall that it was also published in Joe Peterson's "Reliability Magazine" way back.  I have to say, it works pretty darn well for me. 

>>> https://www.maintenance.org/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/399590942964733324/filePointer/399590942964879882/fodoid/399590942964879880/Simplified_Field_Balancing.pdf

I do find I have to make an effort to keep track of the measurement planes & correction places as they can get switch up sometimes.
OLi

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Reply with quote  #7 
I follow the procedure and remove trial weights. I put them the same place in both ends just so I know. Worked for 19 years now with the same 2120 and 10+ before that with previous versions so it sit in my thumbs. I do have newer tools with more graphics, pdf protocols and wireless but when having a troublesome case requiring a quick solution I bring the old faithful just in case and once in a while we need it. Also at hi vibration levels near overload it still perform and I know it goes down to like 0.0005 mm/s at 20 000 RPM if I really have to.... I have not tested that full range with so many other systems. I have not tested to stray from the beaten path who knows what would happen? I have rarely used the 4 ch option but when I did it also worked. I honestly don't do 2-åöane that often either.I have found a couple of bugs in this time bit those I really needed to be fixed were actually fixed in like 6 months or so, way back, last century. So I have used it in a frozen state, no upgrades. Yes we did use it on cylinders in papermachines on site when people were speeding up their old machines and it worked great, just remember to run one roll at the time in a group or far apart as we found interference is bad otherwise.
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Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #8 
I do the same Oli. It works for me although i have not balanced for a long while. Did a lot of that for a Finnish paper company who decided to close up their workshop here in Melbourne Australia.  dmn it, it was a good opportunity to learn a lot. rgds

RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #9 
Yes, I told the software that I left the 1st trial weight in plane 1. It just didn’t work. Balancing on a soft bearing machine vs a field balance is very different, for a number of reasons. If leaving the first weight on works for you, that’s great. But I’ve heard several people over the years complain about the 2-plane in FastBal not working well. Was just passing along what seems to work, for me at least. But in 30 years I’ve only ever had to use 2-plane maybe 8 or 10 times.
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OLi

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Reply with quote  #10 
I have at times run 2-plane in a soft machine with accels and those worked but it is a very limited number of cases. I have run many more i lathes but they are pretty stiff so they are about the same as field balancing. The 2-plane in the old CMVA10 did however never work for me but they are likely recycled by now.
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fburgos

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Reply with quote  #11 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyCas
When you enter the trial weight for trial 2, you enter both weights.


im still to test the two plane balance on the csi2140, but i also have this question,

i used do as follow,

test run 1 add mas
remove the mass 1
test run 2 add mass
remove mass 2

as you say in csi in the test mass you have the option to add on either plane, what if i dont remove first the second "add mass screen" must include the firts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachDiag
I found a link to this old application paper on Fast Bal II.  I recall that it was also published in Joe Peterson's "Reliability Magazine" way back.  I have to say, it works pretty darn well for me.

https://www.maintenance.org/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/399590942964733324/filePointer/399590942964879882/fodoid/399590942964879880/Simplified_Field_Balancing.pdf

I do find I have to make an effort to keep track of the measurement planes & correction places as they can get switch up sometimes.


Second is great example for text book couple, from the initial run data I'll go for two plane balance job


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