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Shurafa

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Reply with quote  #1 

How do you manage missed/overdue machines?

I'd like to learn from you about your practice on the machines that are not surveyed during the router cycle. Though is issue is common for PdM programs, I'm interested more in the vibration program in particular.

For me, after I complete my data collection on all possible machines, I run a report from the software to short list the missed machines. This list is sent to Operations and they are advised that these machines will be overdue if I couldn't measure them before the end of the month.

Despite the effort from both sides, there are always missed machines for a variety of reasons, some of which are in fact very genuine.

How do you control and lower the overdue machines in your programs?

Regards- Ali M. Al-Shurafa
fburgos

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Reply with quote  #2 
i have the same problem... I know its posible to do more than 100% montly task but for unknown reasons can't do
ivibr8

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Reply with quote  #3 
Shurafa

I ran into that same problem and I suspect almost everyone who does this for a living has had the same issue come up.

Machines get missed for a variety of reasons, mostly you just can't control (e.g. Plant operations, maintenance, unavailability, etc.).

To maintain credibility, I ALWAYS listed those machines "Not Monitored".
The report always went to personnel who had interest in the condition....for me, my manager, the Plant manager, and the area managers.

The report had to be issued at a particular time. I had a notes section for any machines NOT MONITORED but were reported previously as UNDER OBSERVATION.  Usually, the managers responsible would get the data as soon as the machine could be operated....even outside the normal reporting window.   

I could only make an assessment on those machines I could evaluate.    I would never blame my doctor for not catching a problem if I rarely went to see him.

For over 15 years I monitored cooling tower gearboxes and motors. One day our EH&S learned I actually entered the cooling tower to take the data. ""GASP"""
So for the next two years I was not allowed to take data on the towers. One night the Site Manager was touring the Site in preparations for the Admiral's visit. By this time, one of the gearboxes was howling and from what I heard, all HELL broke lose as he wondered why no one hadn't noticed until then.  I didn't feel good about it but at least I had DOCUMENTED these machines as not being monitored for two years.  

What can I say?      "Cover your butt"

JP   
Shoveldr

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Reply with quote  #4 
I've been in the service business for years, and coming in for a couple days a month, it can be a challenge to get everything running in a short time frame.

I make detailed notes (CSI allows you to create custom notes for the analyzer) when something isn't tested.  Is operations refusing to switch equipment?  Is it down for a shift for maintenance, is it down for an extended outage, etc.

I include in my report items that were not tested and why, and then bring specific attention to things that haven't been tested through multiple surveys.

One trick is to find out if they normally rotate the running equipment and schedule the survey around that time.  I've been to multiple sites where they told me they had a schedule for rotating the equipment and when I showed them that the same assets were running every week, every month, the realized no one was following the program.

We had a large project where on renewal the customer demanded 100% route completion, the project had multiple building with operators spread all over the place, it could take hours to get one pump started.  I explained the issue with the logistics of this, but they were insistent.  Based on our experience we quoted the project based on their demand and lost it to another provider (I'm not saying we celebrated, but we weren't upset).  From a conversation with someone from the company that won the project things are not going well.
Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #5 
Typically, the only spec we are given is "do" and the scope is "everything". That always includes a bunch of stuff that rarely runs

I notify clients of the status of every piece of equipment and press them to either run the stuff that doesn't run or remove it from the route.
Ron Stiemsma

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Reply with quote  #6 
Most of the time they are not taken because they are not running.  So if they are not running they are not wearing out.  I check them a few times during the month to see if they have been put in service.  If not, I list them not in service that month and close the PM.  On a typical power plant unit I may have 3% not in service.  This is mostly redundant machines like where we have 3 and only require to run 2 at any given time.  We do not cycle Operations to start a machine just so we can get data. 
Shurafa

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks a lot for everyone for the input.

The target I use in my program is 5% missed of the total scheduled assets during a survey. We usually meet the target or end up slightly above the target.

What is your target, if you set a control on your program?

Regards- Ali M. Al-Shurafa
JuddJones

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stiemsma
Most of the time they are not taken because they are not running.  So if they are not running they are not wearing out.  I check them a few times during the month to see if they have been put in service.  If not, I list them not in service that month and close the PM.  On a typical power plant unit I may have 3% not in service.  This is mostly redundant machines like where we have 3 and only require to run 2 at any given time.  We do not cycle Operations to start a machine just so we can get data. 


Its been my experience that sister centrifugal pumps typically fail almost as often as the operating pump. In my previous life at a chemical plant the operators did not rotate the pumps as they were supposed to. When forced to switch to a sister pump that hadn't run since it was rebuilt it wasn't uncommon for the pump to lose bearings in a few months time. Typically this was due to false brinelling from the pumps never having been rotated since rebuild.
fburgos

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Reply with quote  #9 
I think false brinelling is one of the top causes on standby machinery failure but is prevented by rotating/start machinery every other month
Shurafa

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Reply with quote  #10 
I've a similar experience to what Big J described though the failure modes may differ.

Pumps, when kept off, may not wear in the same way running pumps do however they could have a shorter life if they are simply kept off and suddenly started after an extended downtime period.

Issues with rolling element bearings are one factor. The service the pump handles is another. I've seen many failures of seawater pumps after marine growth built layers on rotating and/stationary parts. Also, some chemicals tend to change phase from liquid to solid when they are stagnant. The mechanical seals of these pumps can fail due to this crystallization.
MarkL

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Reply with quote  #11 
I do all contract work and with the exception of a power plant and one Dairy, most of the machines I visit are always running and its not really an issue.
I always make a point of pointing out machines that have missed 3 consecutive surveys.
Sinski

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Reply with quote  #12 
Pretty much similar to most here. Most items not collected on my site are due to being standby pumps etc. These are always marked in the report as not monitored. I do have a small group of pumps that I get operators to switch on for me such as boiler pumps etc. as these are deemed critical. Some of the pumps can actually cause a paper break on the machine, usually hydraulic pumps, so do not attempt these as I do not want to be the cause of downtime.
Curran919

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fburgos
I think false brinelling is one of the top causes on standby machinery failure but is prevented by rotating/start machinery every other month


That seems... seldom? Is every eight weeks really sufficient?
Shoveldr

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curran919


That seems... seldom? Is every eight weeks really sufficient?


I would think if you keep assets running for 8 weeks it may sufficient.  I plants that do this I normally see monthly or weekly swaps.

When I was in the Navy I reported to my boat while it was in the shipyard.  The first PM I was assigned was to go to all the idle equipment and rotate the shafts 1/2 turn.  It made no sense to me at the time.
fburgos

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curran919


That seems... seldom? Is every eight weeks really sufficient?


Don't know I remember that but my brain can mix a lot of facts, how much is sufficient?
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