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RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've never really used fault frequency sets -- I know that seems odd, but I never really understood how to set them up, and not really essential for the type of analysis I do, or my methodology (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

Can anyone direct me to a document or paper that explains how to set them up?  Or just give me a quick primer? Specifically, orders-based sets.

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Sinski

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Reply with quote  #2 
Are you just talking about having the bearing frequencies setup so you can see them at the side of the plot or with lines on the plot. Like below.

FF.png 

RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yes, that, and also order defined like 1X, 2X, GMF, belt freqs, driven machines, etc.  All of them.
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Sinski

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Reply with quote  #4 
Open up Database Setup and the first menu that shows up will have Tree Structure at the top.
Open up Tree Structure which will obviously bring up your machine list tree.
Navigate the the machine you want to add fault frequencies to and highlight it.
Select edit at the top right of the screen. This will bring up the page to edit the machine name etc.
At the top right of that screen select Mod Points and that will bring up 2 options and you then select Mod Fault Freq.
This will bring up a list of fault frequencies, rpm frequencies etc. for the first point of the machine you highlighted if any are entered. In the boxes provided enter the following enter the bearing number or gear number etc. under Fault Frequency Description. This can be anything you type to let you know what it is. Click on the arrow for Input Type which will give you a list of options such as BRG for bearing, MUL for multiple, Gear, Gbox, Belt etc. If entering a bearing select BRG and then in the top right of the screen there is an ID Search button which will then let you search for the bearing numbers in the CSi Database. Double click on the appropriate bearing and that will enter the details in the list for you. You can have up to seven entries under each point. If you hit enter after completion that will take you to the page to enter frequencies on the next point in your machine. If you have several points just for Motor NDE then you can use Dup Last in the top right of the screen to copy the last point enter details across. So once each point is finished hit enter to take you to the next point until all complete.
If you only want to enter details to one point then highlight the point required instead of the machine in the earlier step and then select the fault freq button in the top right of the screen. always hit enter when you finish entering the details to save them because if you use the escape key to go back it will lose all entered data.

A bit long winded but that should help you get going. Let me know if anything else is needed or I have missed something from the above.
Noknroll

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Reply with quote  #5 
Rusty
did you mean something like this
fault frequency set.png 

Noknroll

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Reply with quote  #6 
If thats what you mean do this
In database setup select "ff set info"
step1.png
select Add Set 
step2.png 
MHM will automatically allocate the next available set Number in my case its 2 click ok
step3.png
 add all the fault frequencies to the "set" you want for a given point as you would normally
step4.png

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Reply with quote  #7 
It appears to be that you can only have 128 sets, the example I gave above was using one of my d/bases that has much less then 128 sets

I tried to do my example with another database that has 128 sets but it doesn't have the "ADD SET" option on the right side of screen.

128? is that some sort of hexi decimal thing? or some other computer limitation
OLi

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Reply with quote  #8 
Binary I think. I guess it was the space reserved in the flat file database back in before 1985 and it kept on, "and who would need more than 128" it looks very familiar :-)
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Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #9 
I dont use fault frequency sets either because it abstracts the detail 1 level further.  But some do.  For example on a Voith 3m wide paper machine you literally have a hundred or so rolls with 2x 22312 on them.  So set up a FF set, add the CSI FF database num to that set (which drags with it the BPFO etc.) and all you have to do is add the ff set number against the roll. But then when you want to see the BPFO etc in the database set up you first have to go to ff set to look.  I find that a pain. So I just add the ff sets under fault frequencies. Easier.  and when setting up rolls I tend to set one up properly with FF's so copy paste keeps that so not really extra effort.

Reason to set up in orders.  we'll you could set up in Hz but then for every different shaft speed you would have to set up an extra ff set instead of simplicity - only use 1. Orders rule - yes that ol chestnut. rgds
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Reply with quote  #10 
ted my reply this morning, then went for a meeting near Sinsk's home town, came back 2 hrs drive and decided to finish. Then miraculously all others appeared. So I didn't read those until now. rgds  BTW why show 1x and 2x in an ff set.  That is something that should be inate ater a day or 2 training.  It just takes up ff real estate.
fburgos

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Reply with quote  #11 
i tried... a long time a go, didnt find it "easy" changing from ff and frequency calc, I just setup my database using wizard and tried to fill all the things hoping it creates the sets for me but it didn't, all the frequencies are there when I press "k" on my keyboard, probably I'm the only crazy guy using the wizard and VA tab
RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #12 
“ why show 1x and 2x in an ff set”

Variable speed machines - would save a little time. Also for plots customers will see. I rarely make a call unless I can include a plot so that when a customer sees it, they go “Oh yeah, I can see that.”

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Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #13 
I don't think it is crazy to use RBMWizard at all.

It does everything Rusty is looking for automatically.

Just know that it will apply some inadequate AP and AL sets and redo them with more appropriate settings.

Adding configurations to an existing database that was built using Dbase is tricky but can be done if done with care.  I completely wrecked a database the first time I did it though.
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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyCas
“ why show 1x and 2x in an ff set”

Variable speed machines - would save a little time. Also for plots customers will see. I rarely make a call unless I can include a plot so that when a customer sees it, they go “Oh yeah, I can see that.”


For variable speeds 1x is still 1x if you are an order kind a guy. rgds
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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Harvey
I don't think it is crazy to use RBMWizard at all.

It does everything Rusty is looking for automatically.

Just know that it will apply some inadequate AP and AL sets and redo them with more appropriate settings.

Adding configurations to an existing database that was built using Dbase is tricky but can be done if done with care.  I completely wrecked a database the first time I did it though.


Great for being honest Danny, CSI is like that. It is unforgiving and there is no undo. I have stuffed up a few db's in my life. On a stand alone it is easier because before attempting it is easy to take a copy of the *.rbm file and you can roll back easily.  Network version....... never tried it.  I imagine a lot more difficult and might / probably require IT involvement. rgds

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