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Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #31 
"I believe I have tied up the loose ends (remaining questions) in the thread."

I don't believe that my concern has been addresses so I'll repeat it.

Wouldn't the looseness in the video of the motor have easily been found with the tip of your finger?
Walt Strong

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Reply with quote  #32 
Bones, I like your style!

Walt
Walt Strong

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Reply with quote  #33 
Danny,

"Wouldn't the looseness in the video of the motor have easily been found with the tip of your finger?"

Yes, of course, if you knew where to look and could safely put your finger on it. I have put my finger on a lot of joints!

Walt
JuddJones

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Harvey
"I believe I have tied up the loose ends (remaining questions) in the thread."

I don't believe that my concern has been addresses so I'll repeat it.

Wouldn't the looseness in the video of the motor have easily been found with the tip of your finger?

It may have Danny. I do not know all the details of that particular video, I chose it from YouTube as a simple example just to get a conversation started. That was an error on my part as it didn't really match the intent of my post. I do know that I have worked on many pieces of equipment where I was not allowed to approach the equipment without it being locked out. Safety being what it is these days, what you or I think is safe or accepted risk is not allowed. I had many motors and gearboxes that were completely guarded that were also behind do not enter, or lockout required gates.
Danny Harvey

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Reply with quote  #35 
There are certainly a small percentage that would fall into the "do not touch" category and for those, MA would be a big help.

Knowing where to look doesn't require a great deal of expertise either. In the example, the base is unsupported under the motor hold-down bolt making is so that it would flex with every rotation.  The cracked weld would have been easy to spot. Simply repairing the weld is a temporary measure because it will crack in the same place if you don't provide some support for the load.

...IF you could touch it.

But once again, that is a very small percentage of what's out there.
RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #36 
Tough crowd.
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Curran919

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Reply with quote  #37 
Tough crowd indeed.

Of course MA is not going to upend the industry. Of course its not going to replace accelerometers. Of course its not going to be your primary diagnostic tool.

It doesn't do much better than your existing tools, but what it does, it does MUCH better, making it a useful addition to the toolbox, that will likely get much cheaper in the coming 10 years when you are all probably retiring.

In my opinion, the only reason I have the camera is a tool to communicate with management. If I was the final decision caller, it would not be useful, because it wouldn't show me much new info. But it sure makes it easy to understand for the vibration-layman that calls that shots.

Its not a diagnostic tool, it is a persuasion tool.
Curran919

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Reply with quote  #38 
Also, I cringe when I see the older generation of VAs or engineers dumping on younger analysts.

Every diagnostic failure of a young analyst is the failure of the older generation (including management) to properly provide mentorship.

The existence of this technology does not make 'complacent' analysts.
106Bones

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Reply with quote  #39 
Curran919; No need to create generational animus or obligation where none exists. When one puts their opinions and examples out for examination they get the examining requested. This is not a group that tends to superficial examination. By talent and experience they have the analogous equivalent of machinery x-ray vision, they see problems and solutions clearly often with a minimum of information. I reviewed this entire post topic and responses and see no "dumping" on anyone. Assigning guilt for lack of mentoring from this group is perplexing. I know of no such obligation or even need, this is not a group of beginners and has no "Management" responsibility for failing to mentor to persons we don't know personally and certainly not by unknown unassigned generational factors.     

This is a great place to get realistic candid opinions from a group of ultra experts each largely successful on their own and beholding to no one. That makes a very bright independent light on everything that will illuminate every idea or practice right down to the fine scratch level.
Shoveldr

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Reply with quote  #40 

I really love the technology, I have seen some amazing detailed case histories with before and after videos that were dead on.

That being said, it is "technology" which really isn't a replacement for training and experience.

It reminds me of an incident years ago when there was a push for "multi-technology" technicians, and every mechanical guy was trained on thermography (this was before NFPA 70E and arc flash exploded).  I had a really sharp mechanical guy show me a hot spot he saw in a cabinet on the IR camera and asked what it was, I told him it was a heater.

I finally saw a MA video where the user got it wrong.  It was on a blower that had catastrophically failed twice in pretty rapid succession, no matter what they did when they ran it in production, it started vibrating like crazy.  The vendor that came in to balance it had an MA camera and did a video with it in production.  From the video he identified it as a resonance issue; he included lots of essentially BS explanations.  We knew it wasn't resonance because the customer had done a bump test.  This fan was on a VFD and had an inlet damper, outlet damper and a bypass damper in addition to a VFD, all 4 were adjusted automatically to meet airflow.  They battled long and hard with the vendor to get them to properly tune the system.

It is a great tool that I would love to have in my tool box, but it doesn't replace learning the fundamentals.  On the plus side, I don't see the vendors pushing it as a system that will identify all your problems without real training.

RustyCas

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
 If I was the final decision caller, it would not be useful, because it wouldn't show me much new info. But it sure makes it easy to understand for the vibration-layman that calls that shots.  Its not a diagnostic tool, it is a persuasion tool.


I totally agree.  I think the technology is great.  If I had another 10 years to work, I would already own this system.  My problem is not the system, it's the way it's being marketed, especially on LinkedIn (but not necessarily RDI - there are a lot of reps/consultants pushing it as well).  It's not being touted as a "confirming" technology or a "visualization" tool -- it seems to be heralded as a new diagnostic tool, and it's not new and not necessarily faster if you are also taking corresponding vibration data (which you should be).  If you have physical access to the machine, most of us here could find these problems with a finger before you could get the camera set up.  That doesn't mean the technology isn't good or valuable, just oversold -- the same as ultrasonics or laser alignment (and I've been using both for 30 years).  Of course, that's just my opinion.

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