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Shurafa

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Redundancy in Your Facilities

Hello 


How much redundancy is there in your plants as far as rotating equipment is concerned?

My experience is limited in terms of exposure to different industries. I had a chance to work in petrochemicals, power and O&G, in the middle east only. As a very rough estimate, the redundancy that I saw is between 20-50% for second class critical equipment. Usually, large machines are not redundant.

For instance, the cooling water pumps could be 6 units supplying their discharge to a common header and then to the users. During peak times, maybe 4 or 5 are used while the other seasons are handled by 2, 3 or 4 units. Plant or instrument air compressors are 6 and max 4 are put in service.

How about other industries like paper, pharma, nuclear, utilities etc? Do you consider the redundancy in your plants fairly designed, underdesigned or overdesigned?

Regards- Ali M. Al-Shurafa 
  


David Eason

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20-50 percent?!?

I'm stunned. The paper mills I worked in are closer to 2-5%. There are inline spares in the chem-add area, little pumps and motors that will almost fit in your lunch box. Paper mills fit the old analogy of links in a chain, lose one and the whole process stops. The chain is 100 meters long, lots of opportunities to stop production.
Beatnik

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Redundancy seems to be a principle that is disappearing slowly. It's seen as sleeping capital these days, companies prefer to work on reliability.


Here we still have some but it's disappearing. When we increase production, we use the existing redundancy and turn it into operating units.
Curran919

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Nuclear is still 100-200%. Don't think that's ever going to change...
OLi

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In a nuke on some critical items you need to have 3 pcs redundancy and 2 operating and time limit repair on the 3d and that is by regulation here and after Fukishima it is even more extended so a couple of older nukes  are shutdown as they don't have operational time left to motivate (read payback time) for another upgrade one was even never restarted after a complete previous upgrade that just was completed. so my nuke reference for use of moving coil velocity probes for 40+ years is gone :-( sniffle, so sad.
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Vibe-Rater

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Paper 5%, (Sinsk) (David I wrote this before seeing your reply)  there are varies chest that provide a buffer if - depending on what - breaks down.  My experience on an oil refinery is that there is a LOT of redundancy. rgds
Noknroll

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Reply with quote  #7 
Power generation site i have has lots of redundancy
RustyCas

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I work at a number of different plants, and there is little redundancy at most of them.  The primary (expensive) production equipment usually has zero redundancy;  the built-in reliability is one of the things that makes it so expensive.  Run-of-the-mill auxiliary equipment will have some redundancy at the larger plants, but not the smaller plants.

Of course if they have a good PdM guy, how much redundancy do they really need? [wink] 

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Sinski

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vibe-Rater
Paper 5%, (Sinsk) (David I wrote this before seeing your reply)  there are varies chest that provide a buffer if - depending on what - breaks down.  My experience on an oil refinery is that there is a LOT of redundancy. rgds

Yep a small percentage. Most things that have redundancy at paper mills are generally machine hydraulics and water systems. Our boiler also has redundancy with all of its pumps. There are some buffers in the system that could be related building up stock or water before taking a pump out for minor maintenance etc. We can actually shut down our main pulper and associated equipment and feed our dry end pulper with baled waste from our box plants to keep the whole mill running.  
Shurafa

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Nobody here works for a refinery, gas oil separation plant, gas processing facility, chemicals, petrochemicals etc?
Vibe-Rater

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Reply with quote  #11 
I help out on a refinery when one of their vibe techs is on leave.  Probably 80 - 90% redundancy. Recently there was a situation when one of 2 oil pumps was out for a rebuild and the only one left developed a problem.  Only a 10 - 15 Kw motor.  Failure would have shut down the cracker.  Think $5 Million at least. rgds
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